| The state’s magnanimity to those offenders whom it would find too expensive to punish. | |
| — Ambrose Bierce | |
| From: “The Devil’s Dictionary“ | |
| . | |
Amnesty, n.
January 20, 2013 by kmabarrett
22 Responses
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Obama’s legacy.
Interesting opinion. Do you really think Obama should have prosecuted Bush / Cheney as war criminals? Some Americans seem perfectly willing to elect war criminals – or at least candidates (Trump) who say they have no problem ordering our military and spy / security services to torture prisoners, even though it is common knowledge that torture doesn’t provide actionable intelligence and violates international law and multiple treaties which the U.S. has signed. I agree this failure to prosecute will be part of Obama’s legacy. Just as it remains part of Ford’s for the Nixon pardon and George H. W. Bush’s legacy for pardoning the group of Reagan’s NSA / CIA and State Dept. staff who actually were convicted in Iran-Contra and several who were under trial and not yet convicted.
Humanity today is far too divided. Plenty of folks are sad and scared and angry and there are sound bites being fed to us that seem fueled by judgement, fear and even hatred. I refuse to be baited into a way that will further harm an already hurting world, this is our home. And a house divided cannot stand.
If there is any hope for all of us to move forward, to heal and to grow – we have got to learn to engage people who are different from us with dignity and with love. I have personal convictions. One of them is this: I care about you for the simple fact that you are a person, my neighbor on planet earth. It’s not about what color your skin is, how much money you have in the bank, your political affiliation, sexual orientation, gender, nationality or faith. That’s all fascinating, but it cannot add or take away from the reality that I am already pulling for you. I am not about to get in the nasty business of throwing stones at any one, I don’t play that way.
I agree with everything you’ve said in your reply. (Except I do occasionally throw a stone every now and then.)
In my opinion, Obama’s legacy is BOTH President Trump and the marches we are seeing in various cities around the country (and around the world). The U.S. (and the world) is always looking for a transformational leader who will make everything alright for the rest of us for the rest of time. History (and humanity) doesn’t work that way – even if we hold it (the desire) out as an ideal. In popular mythology, President Obama was to be just such a “transformational” figure. He was going to end racism. He was going to bring peace. He was going to fix the economy. And, as the Republicans mocked, he was going to walk on water. Well, he wasn’t able to do any of those things and the reaction to this in candidate Clinton’s notional supporters in the “Iron Wall” (the “Rust Belt”) was “Let’s try someone even more radical – a REAL outsider.”
Politics is no different than regular living. You can’t drink one large glass of water and expect to never be thirsty again. If you elect a Democrat to restore the budget or economy, you (the voter) have to stay engaged and continue to elect local, state, House and Senate politicians to continue and to promote the policies. You can’t take four years off from politics until the next presidential election. Governing and politics are Sisyphean tasks. Every advance is inevitably met with some back-sliding.
This was Obama’s failure (and legacy). Like Jimmy Carter before him, Obama was so wrapped up in working this year’s problems (2009), he forgot to plan for next year’s problems. Carter’s result was Reagan and 50 years of war on Unions, the Middle Class, and efficient government and ALSO the exponential growth of the military / industrial / Congressional complex which Eisenhower warned of.
Obama’s result (failure due to inexperience) was the loss of the House (budget control and the ability to subpoena) in 2010, but more importantly the loss of States (governorships and State Houses) during a census cycle. This meant the Republican’s were able to cripple the recovery from the recession, and, MORE importantly, gain control at the state level over redistricting (“gerrymandering”) to ensure their continued election success moving forward (2012, 2014, and now 2016) even when they are out-voted. This redistricting is what allows the Republicans to have additional “Red” states representatives in Congress even though the number of “Blue” voters is greater.
Beyond that, only history will show…
And since the election didn’t go his way, Obama gives a pardon to a traitor and the Dems riot, loot and vandalize – I’m tired of the ranting and childish temper tantrums.
Just out of curiosity, which traitor did President Obama pardon? Also, which “Dems” are you referring to? As a significant number of Independents voted against Trump and seem to dislike him as much as, if not more than, the Dems, how do you know they weren’t “just” Independents? Rioting, looting and vandalizing are crimes and folks doing them should be arrested and prosecuted. Ranting and childish temper tantrums are generally protected speech. If they weren’t, then President Trump and Press Secretary Sean Spicer would need to be prosecuted for their rants, raves, LIES, and childish temper tantrums about news coverage accurately reporting the size of the crowd at the Trump inauguration as one of, if not THE smallest crowds since the early 1990’s.
And, yes, I’m tired of it too. And he’s only been in office two days!! Barring impeachment or resignation, Trump is our President for the next four years. Why the heck should it bother him how big the crowd was? To paraphrase the “Immortal Bard”: “Methinks, the children doth protest too much!“
All of these had the potential to hurt the country: Neal, Salleh, Griffith, Banks, Anderson.
I also happen to be independent and I don’t like or dislike Trump. I prefer to wait and see what his 4 years can or can not do before I start marching in the streets and having a temper tantrum in front of his motorcade. I didn’t want Obama, but I didn’t go all ballistic !
I believe in free speech, not free ranting and creating a disturbance. Which is why I refuse to back politically correct measures in curbing speech. I have a right to speak as well as they do.
Hi GP,
I apologize if you feel I’m trying to curb your right to speech. That is not my intent. I am merely seeking to understand your comment about “amnesty”. I honestly thought you were referring to Obama’s failure to prosecute Bush / Cheney as war criminals because of the cost to the nation (political cost and actual dollars). When you made it clear that’s not who you were referring to, I asked who it was (specifically) you were upset about Obama pardoning.
Your next response was about traitors. Again, you didn’t state names, so I didn’t know who.
Now, you’ve provided five names: “Neal, Salleh, Griffith, Banks, Anderson”, so I looked them up to see what their “treason” was… And, I admit, I’m still confused how you think these folks were going to hurt the country. Neal and Griffth were convicted of cheating their cable TV company. (Who knew THAT was a Federal crime!?!) Salleh was an alcoholic who was convicted of filing false travel vouchers as a government employee. Banks was convicted of stealing $500 worth of wood and nails from the Air Force. He plea bargained and wasn’t even fired by the Air Force (even though “convicted”). Finally, I can’t tell which “Anderson” you’re referring to… Obama pardoned three people named Anderson while he was President. Two were minor drug busts and the third was for falsifying government IDs. He got 15 months in prison. That doesn’t sound like the court felt he was a threat to the Union.
Now in fairness, I only watched the inauguration on news hi-lights because Trump disgusts me. I am willing to give him a chance, because frankly, he’s the President and I don’t have any choice. I don’t know anything about protesters disturbing his motorcade and I haven’t heard anything about it on the news. I have heard about all of the other protests, but nothing about the motorcade.
So, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Again, I apologize if you feel I was somehow trying to curb your right to speak.
Any program manipulating a satellite is capable of many other uses as well. I didn’t see anyone block the motorcade either. [If I said that I apologize]. The disturbances were in many other places. How you feel about Trump is basically how I’ve felt about Hillary ever since Whitewater in Arkansas. Trump certainly wasn’t my first choice, but considering the competition….Now that he’s in, I’ll wait and see if he can undo what politicians have been doing for so many years. I believe it will actually be a painful process – but who knows – what if it works? I don’t think we’re going to convince each other about our different views, so I for one am ending this debate.
They were not using a program to “manipulate” a satellite. They were hacking their “satellite / dish” reception boxes to try to watch TV channels for free. Back then, the cable distributors were upset that people were watching for free and telling their friends how to do it so they prosecuted a few to get everyone else to toe the line… I had several friends who did this for a while back in the ’80’s to mid-’90’s. (Here in the U.S. and in England.) They stopped when prices came down and they realized it wasn’t worth the potential of going to jail for a year or two. The company’s didn’t normally go after the one’s who did it. They went after the smaller number who “helped” their friends do it.
I see. So, you’re saying your friends are thieves? Nice company you keep.
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone…”
Yes, in my day I have known (and had as friends) people who tried to watch TV channels and movies from cable companies without paying for them. I have also known convicted felons, drug addicts and small-time dealers. A few, not many, were actually my friends. I’ve also known whores, thieves, drunk drivers, tax evaders and draft dodgers. I’ve also known (and had as friends) kind and generous folks – teachers, business people, social workers and others who seemed to me to be on track for sainthood. My life has been richer for knowing both the “good” and the “bad”. Yes, I have kept good company. What was your point?
Well – I’ve been put in my place, eh?!!
Your place?? You are a patriotic American who blogs about an interesting period in our history – World War II in the Pacific Theater. (And occasionally, I “borrow” one of your images.) Or am I STILL missing something?
No, I just need to end this conversation. My computer time is up.
Something you might find interesting…
https://pumabydesign001.com/2017/01/24/former-gang-banger-commuted-by-obama-executed-at-halfway-house/
LOL! Come on, GP. This is a fairly typical “Alt-Right” site. They find a fact and then write about it in such a way as to stir up as much emotion and hate as possible.
Plug the guy’s name into Google and read some of the other articles about him and the shooting. He was a poor kid being raised by his grand-mother. I assume his parents were either druggies, in prison or dead. None of the articles I read said which. His high school principle testified in his behalf and said the guy was a good athlete and leader on their championship team. He went off the college (sports scholarship) but couldn’t handle it and dropped out. Moved back in with Grannie, but couldn’t find work. This was 2008, when the economy was collapsing and Black youth unemployment was over 50%. He fell in with a gang and was arrested several times for drug use and minor possession and distribution offenses. He kept getting let off. Then the state / county / city had a big gang cleanup and arrested 17 gang members (29 convictions). He was one of these. Although he had several prior convictions, he never got any hard time. This time, the judge was not so nice and he got 19 years of prison. He copped a plea for possession under 15 grams, but he refused to testify against any of the other gang members.
NOBODY gets almost 20 years of prison time for less than 15 grams of coke unless the prosecutor and judge are trying to make a point. And, yes, this group of convictions effectively ended the gang in their city.
I can’t guess what happened in prison, but obviously he broke the gang’s rules and they decided to make an example of him. Multiple gun shots to the head…
I have no idea if he had turned the corner based on his new lease on life or if he was going to fall back into his old ways. Obviously, he had enemies who weren’t going to let him get a chance either way…
In any case, when a President decides (for whatever reason) to pardon or commute (as in this case), it’s a bit presumptuous to say if giving someone a second chance is good or bad and then also blame the President for the results of the person’s actions. You can say Obama should have known. But if that were true, no one would ever get paroled or time off for good behavior. He is the President. He’s not God! There is little to no chance Obama can know what is (was) really in the man’s heart. I knew a couple of guys who got out at the end of their sentences (armed robbery) who never should have been released. They did their time, but they weren’t sorry for what they did. They were only sorry for getting caught. I chose not to get close to them, so I can’t tell you what they did after I knew them, but I’m sure they were not angels.
Anyway, thanks for the link. It was interesting to both read the article and click around some of the other links on the site. Frightening, but interesting. I will pray for President Trump as I always pray for America…
You negated your own point when you said ‘arrested several times. That makes him a habitual offender – that’s why he finally received 20 years, the system wasn’t ‘picking on him.’ And when a person is convicted and sentenced, what makes you think they should ever ” ever get paroled or time off for good behavior” as you say.
Glad to read that last line.
I’m not sure what “point” you feel I negated. My “point” was that the site you provided was a joke – a bad joke. It is trying to do exactly what you complain the “politically correct” Democrats are trying (in your opinion) to do – twist facts to match an alternate version of reality – that President Obama is somehow morally corrupt.
If you have some arbitrary number of drug convictions nationwide and most of them get an average sentence of 30 to 40 months in prison, and some small fraction of those get significantly longer (like 20 years), then yes, I do look to see why that may have happened. By the way, there is also a fairly wide range for repeat convictions ranging from 3 to 6 to 9 years (on average). Now, this guy got no prison time for his priors (probably) because the amounts were so small. Now, he gets popped again, but this time the prosecutor and the judge are trying to shut-down a gang – so the guy gets serious time – more than twice the maximum time. Now, is it fair? Do I care? It’s probably not fair or just and NOPE, to be honest, I don’t care. Mostly because I’m all for shutting down gangs. Does that mean occasionally some schmuck is going to do extra time? Yup. But, life isn’t always fair.
Did you know it costs about $40,000 to keep a prison in federal prison for a year. That’s an average, not the actual cost of a given prisoner. For state prisons the U.S. average is about $32,000 per year. For Michigan (where this guy was prisoner) it’s about $28,000 per year. The most expensive state is New York which costs about $60,000 per year per prisoner! By the way, all of these numbers are from 2012 and refer to 2010 costs. The welfare cost for someone in Michigan less than $600 per month. So, yeah, I can see why Michigan would be happy to push some of these folks out onto the street AND reluctant to put them in prison to start with. A Libertarian, like Senator Paul, would say selling drugs is an exchange of goods between two consenting adults and should not be illegal to start with.
Now, back to our original point… amnesty means the government doesn’t feel the crime you committed is worth the cost of prosecuting you or keeping you incarcerated. You feel this an issue of Obama’s moral character. I asked why. You brought up treason and gave me five names. None of the convictions had anything to do with treason. I don’t need to ask the point of bringing up their names, but I still want to know what’s upsetting you about former President Obama’s character? I don’t want to get into your feelings about Hillary Clinton and Whitewater (millions spent investigating, no charges ever filed), Libya (millions spent investigating, no charges ever filed), or email (millions spent investigating, no charges ever filed). I’m sensing a pattern here. The bottom line is she didn’t win and she’s not the President. So, before we move on, let me just ask you one final question… Do you REALLY believe if there wasn’t SOMETHING / ANYTHING Hillary could have been charged or convicted of, that she would not be sitting in prison right now?
Or we can agree to drop the whole thing…
I never said you negated anything, so I did not even read the rest of your comment.
Actually, you said: “January 25, 2017 at 2:43 amGP Cox
You negated your own point when you said ‘arrested several times. That makes him a habitual offender – that’s why he finally received 20 years, the system wasn’t ‘picking on him.’ ”
For the record…
Once again, I stand corrected – I said that so many comments ago, but I was not awake at 2:43 am, that must have been your time.